smCOLUMN EIGHTY, DECEMBER 1, 2002
(Copyright © 2002 The Blacklisted Journalist)
SECTION FOURTEEN
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COLUMN
EIGHTY, DECEMBER 1, 2002
(Copyright © 2002 The Blacklisted Journalist)
AN EMAIL DEBATE WITH PETER COYOTE ABOUT RALPH NADER AND THE GREENS
Subject: Re: [AGALIST]
COLUMN SEVENTY-EIGHT
Date: Thu,
10 Oct 2002 03:07:15 -0700
From: "Peter Coyote"
Organization: Wild Dog Productions
To: info@blacklistedjournalist.com
Al,
I think you need to think
this through. "Thanks to Ralph Nader and the Greens (Ralph diverted some
70,000 votes from Gore in Florida) a band of right-wing Hitlerites bent on world
domination now controls America."
1) If you read Gregg
Palast's book, "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy", this
prize-winning reporter for the English Guardian proves (and I narrated
his film on the subject as well) that Jeb Bush and Florida Republicans
disenfranchised and illegally dropped 57,000 black and democratic voters from
the Florida rolls. There are interviews with the company that reviewed the polls
for felons where they come right and admit that the Florida Republicans gave
them extremely loose criteria for finding felons: e.g. a "Richard
Jones" who might be a felon in Texas would justify knocking an "R.
Jones" or a "Richard M. Jones" off the polls in Florida. The
company warned them that this might happen and were told to go ahead. The
company, by the way was paid over $2,000,000 for their work. Their nearest
competitive bid for the same job? $50,000! This was outright theft, and the
Democrats went right along with it, cut their deals and basically shut up.
2) Furthermore, the
combined newspaper poll which recounted all the Florida votes, discovered that
had Gore simply played by the rules and demanded a recount of all Florida votes,
instead of the ones in the Democratic counties that he favored, he would have
won handily and honestly.
3) Blaming Nader for this
is like saying that we dare not ever vote for a candidate less mediocre than any
of the two turkeys officially running for office, lest the more mediocre of the
two win. The blocking of Nader from even attending (with tickets) the
Presidential debates shouldhave clued you in to how bananna-republic the whole
voting process is. This is what you should be concentrating on, instead of the
one guy who brought millions of new voters into the process and basically
described the situation truthfully.
4) I have bones to pick
with Nader, don't get me wrong. I was a supporter, but a) it was disingenuous of
him to insist that there is "no difference between the two parties."
That is simply not true on the level of judicial appointments and in the area of
the environment, women's rights, and appointments at the agency level.
Furthermore, I think that
Nader was driven by personal animosity of Gore (for which it's hard to blame
him.) Gore, who actually understands the environmental issues clearly; who wrote
a pretty good book about it, is a craven, lying son-of-a-bitch who's been caught
with his pants down numerous times, siding with corporate pollutors again and
again. He campaigned in 92 promising to close down a toxic incinerator in Ohio
1100 yards from a school. When he won, he asked Bush to extend their permit in
the closing days of his Presidency. He promised to close the airport at the Edge
of the Everglades until the Canosa family (think Cuba, think sugar) called him
and he reneged. (that might have been worth a couple hundred environmental votes
in Florida don't you think?)
5) Finally, while there was
some publicity benefit to Nader's running, it's my personal belief that the
Greens should not field national candidates, but should concentrate instead on
overwhelming organizing at the local level; to imitate the right-wing in making
sure that they are on school-boards, boards of supervisors; library boards,
chambers of commerce. This is the long-term strategy for winning (and
supporting) Senate and Congressional seats. National campaigns are too
expensive, and the media's job is to whittle the race down to two contenders
(which they decide) and to focus on them. There's no way around that lock in the
short term.
Anyway, I think that
repeating a truism like it was Nader who cost us the election is
counter-productive. Nader had nothing to do with the Democrats going along with
Bush's tax cut; the Democrats voting Bush the most extensive powers they've ever
given to a President (and are now scrambling to take some back.) The ugly truth
is that until elections are financed by the people; until tv air-time is free
for qualified candidates (in return for which they must pledge to appear on each
network in open, town-hall style debates); until all soft-money is banned; and
until individuals and non-profits can take the same tax-deductions as
corporations for "disseminating information" that the corporations do
defeating our interests, nothing will change. It's still important to vote good
men and women into office but it should be recognized as a sacrifice, throwing a
healthy goldfish into polluted water. What they will have to do to stay in
office inevitably cripples their integrity and effectiveness. We need to put
them back into our employ again, and put corporations back in the economic
sector (where they belong) and out of the civic sector.
Anyway, that's my two
cents.
coyote
*
* *
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002
08:21:46 -0400
From: al aronowitz <info@blacklistedjournalist.com>
Organization: THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
To: wdprod@earthlink.net
PETER: I find a lot of
obfuscation in your thinking. The Democrats are a lot of limp dicks, for sure.
But the Greens are a bunch of chicken brains, something I'll elaborate on. In
other words, if you draw a line in the dirt, on the sidewalk, in the middle of
the road and put a chickens beak right on it, one chicken eye sees the line one
way and the other chicken eye sees the line the other way and the chicken sees
nothing but the line. Just like fundamentalists, who see nothing but the party
line, the fundamentalist orthodoxy, the fundamentalist doctrine. Like
fundamentalists of any brand---including far Left fundamentalists---the chicken
is so hypnotized by the line that the chicken will not move but will remain with
its beak to the line, whether you kick it, run it down with a car or oppose it
with George W. Bush and his right wing crowd. If you have the same scorn for the
limp dick Democrats that I have and that Nader and Greens have expressed, you've
got to expect every dirty trick from the right never yet thought up and you've
got to cement the unity of the opposition, not divert 70,000 votes in Florida. I
really don't want to hear any more far-left casuistry or head-up-one's-ass
thinking, especially from a person for whom I have as much respect as I do for
you. As for Nader, I've lost all respect for him. He has rendered himself as
irrelevant as two-faced Arafat.
We live in a world of cruel
reality. Nader and the Greens wanted to punish the Democrats, so they cut off
their noses to spite their faces. They punished the whole country and the whole
world. Yes, it was Nader who enabled Bush to be anointed President by the
fascist injustices of the Supreme Court.. No obfuscated argument will ever
persuade me and the rest of the world otherwise. Look at what's happening as a
result! Bush is taking the U.S. down the same road Slobodan took Serbia. To what
end? The billionaire oligarchs will continue to live well while the U.S.
goes as broke as Russia did, as, Argentina did---no more social security
checks. No more Medicare. No more money to pay government workers No more
pensions. Plus Bush is giving the Islamic extremists exactly what Osama wanted,
a war between Islam and the West, which can only end up as a thermonuclear
holocaust. A total mess and I'm livid. And I blame it all on the arrogance and
pomposity and
Best. Al
*
* *
Subject: RE: [AGALIST]
COLUMN SEVENTY-EIGHT
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 00:21:50 -0700
From: "Peter Coyote" <wdprod@earthlink.net>
Organization: Wild Dog Productions
To: "'al aronowitz'" <info@blacklistedjournalist.com>
Al,
is your point that without
Nader Gore would have won? Are you suggesting that the Republicans paid him to
run? What would you suggest the millions who voted for him do with their energy
for reform if Nader hadn't entered the race? Other than this deciding to run, on
what basis do you call Nader, a life-long public advocate who lives modestly and
without recompense, an "arrogant and dedicated spoiler."? Do you feel
that all third-party candidates are "moles" and spoilers?
Pete
*
* *
Subject: Re: [AGALIST]
COLUMN SEVENTY-EIGHT
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:24:23 -0400
From: al aronowitz info@blacklistedjournalist.com
Organization: THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
To: wdprod@earthlink.net
PETE:
Yes, I am saying that
without Nader Gore would have won. Isn't that obvious? Are ALL you Nader
followers trying to dodge the obvious because you don't want to be blamed for
Bush. Obviously, Nader KNEW he was entering the race as a spoiler. That took
some hubris and arrogance, didn't it?
I'm not suggesting the G.O.P. paid him to run. I'm saying that
I've been given credible reports that the Republicans secretly helped fund his
campaign. Nader attracted millions of idealistic kids who really thought they
could build a third party. They were misguided by Nader and the Greens. I AM
saying that there are pompous Green leaders who were hoping to get enough votes
to qualify for federal election funds. They wanted the money more than they
cared what would happen if the right wing gained control of the country. They
thought they would punish the Democrats and the country would swing their way
after a taste of Bush. It's not working out that way, is it? They didn't count
on all the worst things that could happen that ARE happening.
Yes, I feel that Nader has
negated---and Bush has destroyed---all the good things that Nader did for the
country. And, yes, I think that that Nader was an arrogant and---because he knew
what he was doing---dedicated spoiler.
I never even INTIMATED
"that all third-party candidates are moles." I called your attention
to an instance in which underground leaders concluded that a mole sabotaged the
decrim effort, and I suggested that there COULD BE moles influencing Green
direction. And, yes, I contend that third party candidates who know they don't
stand a chance of winning HAVE TO BE AWARE that they are spoilers, diverting
votes---candidates like Stanley Aronowitz, running for governor of New York on
the Green ticket.
Best, Al
*
* *
Subject: Bird in my teeth
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:25:08 -0700
From: "Peter Coyote" <wdprod@earthlink.net>
Organization: Wild Dog Productions
To: "'aga7866'" <info@blacklistedjournalist.com>
Never one to stop shaking a
dead bird, Al, I want to pursue this a little bit more with you.
Nader and the Greens approached the Democrats early on with a deal: Help us
qualify for Federal matching money and we will not campaign in any close or
swing states. The response to that was a decisive "fuck you" from the
Democrats. The Democrats led by Mr. Environmental, Al Gore. There was no reason
that they could not have made an alliance with the Greens and assured themselves
of their vote. The Prime Minister of Germany did it, and the Greens there (by
being intransigent, I might add) control a critical 8% of the vote and have a
real voice in National politics.
The ONLY state Gore lost to
Nader was Florida. Blaming Nader and the Greens for not anticipating that the
President's brother would blatantly rig and steal the election and that the
Supreme Court would blatantly throw the decision is like asking them to accept
that we live in a Fascist dictatorship and not campaign at all.
It's true that Bush et al
are extremely right wing dangerous folks. That's not Nader's fault. Neither is
it his fault that the Democrats are spineless assholes without a principle
between them. Someone has to speak truth to power, and if that person has to be
absolutely flawless and perfect, it'll be a long wait.
It sounds like your sense
of "playing jazz" would demand that everyone in politics (with more
responsibility going to challengers) think through the implications of
everything, including being able to predict the future. Did you level the same
charges at Gene McCarthy for having the temerity to challenge the status quo?
I understand that you're
pissed off, but you're pissed off at the wrong people. 48 MILLION people voted
for George Bush. Think about that for half a fucking second! 48 MILLION people
like the guy and think that guys like you and me are full of shit. Instead of
blaming Nader (and of course you've laid no blame on the previous political
ass-holes who created the condition in which the Green party felt it necessary
to field a candidate) why not look forward. What can we do about the future? If
nothing, stop complaining. If there's something we can do: changing the way
elections are run; fielding better candidates, getting more organized; setting
up Democratic and Gtreen think tanks to counter right-wingers (who by and large
are doing a much better job of coining vocabulary and arguments than we are),
then by God, let's do it and stop sniveling. Looking backwards and casting blame
does no one one bit of good. It's like a soloist saying, "Oh shit, that
last note gave me a great idea, I wish I had it again." By the time he's
finished the thought they're into the bridge and he's no longer playing with the
band.
These are dark times on so
many fronts. Even had the Democrats won, and their appointments been marginally
better, do you think we would have signed the Kyoto accords? Done zip to stop
global warming? Species extinction? Both parties work for the same pot of money,
Al. YOu know that as well as I do. It's wishful thinking to think that on the
big picture the Democrats would have been much different. I appreciate that the
devil's in the details and would certainly rather see anyone other than John
Ashcroft as attorney general. But you know as well as I do, that after 9/11 the
Dems would have (and did) trample one another to appear
more-patriotic-than-the-next.
Why not put your energy on
the heart-of-the-matter: Campaign finance. Reel this guys back into the people's
employ. If the following steps were taken, within ten years we'd see a wholly
different political landscape. (If they're not, nothing will change.)
1) Full Federal Funding of
all national elections and a ban on soft money.
a) Once in office,
elected officials are no longer allowed to take any gifts, travel, speakers
fees, etc.
2) Free tv-prime-time
beginning six weeks before the elections on each network.
a) in return for which
each candidate has to appear on town-hall style debates on each network. (done
this way in most of Europe, so you really have a chance to check
them out.
3)Non-profits and
individuals to receive the same tax-write-offs as corporations for
"disseminating information." e.g.-When the Clean Air Act was first
attempted, the Big Three automakers sent a dog-and-pony show around the country
telling cub-scout troops, little-leaguers, handicapped groups etc. that if the
bill passed, no car bigger than a Honda would be allowed on the roads. They
scared the shit out of people and generated so much 'astro-turf' correspondence
that the bill was defeated. The Big Three deducted the costs of that little
exercise, which means that you and I paid for it.
"All governments exist
to defraud their people"....Peter Drucker. (If he doesn't know, I don't
know who does.) The only question that remains is: What're we gonna do next.
respectfully,
Peter
Coyote
*
* *
Subject: Re: Bird in my
teeth
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:29:48 -0400
From: al aronowitz <info@blacklistedjournalist.com>
Organization: THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
To: wdprod@earthlink.net
PETE:
Never one to stop shaking a
dead bird, Al, I want to pursue this a little bit more with you.
I'm honored.
Nader and the Greens
approached the Democrats early on with a deal: Help us qualify for Federal
matching money and we will not campaign in any close or swing states.
I never was apprised of
that. But that smells a little like blackmail, doesn't it?
The response to that was a
decisive "fuck you" from the Democrats. The Democrats led by Mr.
Environmental, Al Gore.
How would YOU have
responded to that bit of extortion?
There was no reason that
they could not have made an alliance with the Greens and assured themselves of
their vote. The Prime Minister of Germany did it, and the Greens there (by being
intransigent, I might add) control a critical 8% of the vote and have a real
voice in National politics.
Might I remind you that
here in the U. S., we do NOT have a parliamentary system.
The ONLY state Gore lost to
Nader was Florida.
He lost a few other
states. too, including his own. There's no question that Gore was a wimp. I
guess he's learned his lesson much too late.
Blaming Nader and the
Greens for not anticipating that the President's brother would blatantly rig and
steal the election and that the Supreme Court would blatantly throw the decision
is like asking them to accept that we live in a Fascist dictatorship and not
campaign at all
America is not a
Democracy, it's a hypocrisy. In Florida, Nader successfully diverted some 70,000
votes from Gore. 70,000 votes would have given Gore a safe plurality too large
for Jeb Bush to fuck with.
It's true that Bush et al
are extremely right wing dangerous folks. That's not Nader's fault. Neither is
it his fault that the Democrats are spineless assholes without a principle
between them.
I long ago conceded that
the Democrats are limp dicks. I suggest that the way to attack the system is to
wrest control of the Democratic Party from the asshole politicians who don't
care that the
Someone has to speak truth
to power, and if that person has to be absolutely flawless and perfect, it'll be
a long wait.
Aren't you revealing a
little holier-than-thouism with that statement?
It sounds like your sense of "playing jazz" would
demand that everyone in politics
(with more responsibility going to challengers) think through the
implications of everything, including being able to predict the future.
Yes, a little vision
would have helped. Yardbird Parker had vision. Miles had vision. I knew Miles
very well and he could see what was happening and what was going to happen in
music.
Did you level the same
charges at Gene McCarthy for having the temerity to challenge the
status quo?
I wasn't much of an
activist in those days. I was so fed up with the system that I dropped out and
didn't pay much attention. I was also not a little insane, a condition touched
off by the dirtbags I worked with and for at the NY Post. I don't even remember
when it was that Gene McCarthy was a factor.
I understand that you're pissed off,
I would say livid
but you're pissed off at
the wrong people. 48 MILLION people voted for George Bush.
The American electorate
has many times proved itself as stupid as all electorates around the world.
America also elected Alzheimer the Brainless and I Am Not A Crook Nixon.
Think about that for half a
fucking second! 48 MILLION people
like the guy and think that guys like you and me are full of shit.
I have fans who love me
AND that madman. Also I think EVERYBODY's fulla shit. Click on
Instead of blaming Nader
(and of course you've laid no blame on the previous political ass-holes
I detest ALL assholes!
But, as I say, everybody hates an asshole but can't wait to be one.
who created the condition
in which the Green party felt it necessary to field a candidate) why not look
forward.
That is what I'm saying
we all on the left must do. The chickenbrains with their beaks glued to their
doctrinaire party line must be willing to budge, shift and IMPROVISE. People
married to ANY kind of orthodoxy have got to realize that they are
fundamentalists and that fundamentalism is unhealthy for the world.
What can we do about the
future?
That's what we've got
to start figuring out before the body bags start piling up---both at home and
abroad. We've got to find a way to avert the coming thermonuclear holocaust.
If nothing, stop
complaining.
You mean to say that
YOU'RE not complaining?
If there's something we can
do: changing the way elections are run; fielding better candidates, getting more
organized; setting up Democratic and Green think tanks to counter right-wingers
(who by and large are doing a much better job of coining vocabulary and
arguments than we are), then by God, let's do it and stop sniveling.
Are you accusing me of
sniveling?
Looking backwards and
casting blame does no one one bit of good.
What's that old saying:
those who don't read history are bound to repeat it.
It's like a soloist saying,
"Oh shit, that last note gave me a great idea, I wish I had it again."
You're reaching.
By the time he's finished
the thought they're into the bridge and he's no longer playing with the band.
That's not the way
musicians improvise when they're playing jazz
These are dark times on so
many fronts. Even had the Democrats won, and their appointments been marginally
better, do you think we would have signed the Kyoto accords?
It' more likely we
would have.
Done zip to stop global
warming?
It' more likely we
would have.
Species extinction?
It' more likely we
would have.
Both parties work for the
same pot of money, Al. YOu know that as well as I do. It's wishful thinking to
think that on the big picture the Democrats would have been much different. I
appreciate that the devil's in the details
The Devil's in ALL of
us.
and would certainly rather see anyone other than John Ashcroft as attorney general.
There you go!
But you know as well as I
do, that after 9/11 the Dems would have (and did) trample one another
I see nothing wrong
with a feeling of patriotism within an America attacked by maniacal extremist
Islamic fanatics who want a war with the West.
Why not put your energy on
the heart-of-the-matter: Campaign finance. Reel this guys back into the people's
employ. If the following steps were taken, within ten years we'd see a wholly
different political landscape. (If they're not, nothing will change.)
I won't count on Bush
switching his allegiance from Big Oil to America.
1) Full Federal Funding of all national elections
and a ban on soft money.
a)
Once in office, elected officials are no longer allowed to take any
gifts, travel, speakers fees, etc.
2) Free tv-prime-time beginning six weeks before
the elections on each network.
a) in return for which each candidate has to appear on town-hall style debates on each network.
I'm for all of those but
how do we enlighten the ninnies who stand in the way?
(done
this way in most of Europe, so you really have a chance to check them out.)
3)Non-profits and individuals to receive the same
tax-write-offs as corporations for "disseminating information."
e.g.-When the Clean Air Act was first attempted, the
It's always the
Oligarchs (Big Money) versus the people. You've done your part to enlighten the
people and I'm trying t do my part.
"All governments exist
to defraud their people"....Peter Drucker.
I say it's fools and
charlatans who always rule the rest of us---a worldwide condition.
(If he doesn't know, I
don't know who does.) The only question that remains is: What're we gonna do
next.
Organize peace marches
led by leaders who don't give us doctrinaire harangues. But we've got to be
ready for bigger and bloodier Kent State Massacres
Best, Al
(I find your html a
little hard to handle when i click on the reply button.)
*
* *
Subject: NADERITES
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:39:40 -0400
From: al aronowitz <info@blacklistedjournalist.com>
Organization: THE BLACKLISTED JOURNALIST
To: "Coyote, Peter" <wdprod@earthlink.net>
PETE: Haven't heard from
you since I last emailed you. The following was taken from http://www.davidcogswell.com/
So, I'm not the only one
who thinks so. --Al
Green Nightmare
What the Greens don't seem
to be getting is that in countries that have more than two parties, the parties
form coalitions in order to combine their power for greatest advantage. Third
parties in America seem to be just putting on a show with no hope of winning.
Their effect is inevitably to split the people they are closest to in the
political spectrum and give the power to the other side.
The Naderites seem to be
blindly driving forward like automaton bulls without regard to the fact that
their efforts are undermining their own core causes. Their only power now is to
break the
Time to evolve beyond that
primitive level of political naiveté and gain just a bit of pragmatism while we
still have a chance to preserve something of planet Earth.
##
* * *
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